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Post by Super Communist on Feb 10, 2012 23:56:25 GMT -5
Which metabolic system do you think works better overall?
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Venomous Dragon
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Post by Venomous Dragon on Feb 11, 2012 0:28:50 GMT -5
Neither is truly superior to the other. They both have there advantages and are better suited to different things.
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Post by Ultimategrid on Feb 11, 2012 3:07:53 GMT -5
In terms of simple survival, it's clear that a cold blooded metabolism works the best. Crocodilians survived the KT event, and the ice age, and even now are still the top of the food chain.
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Wyvax
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Post by Wyvax on Feb 11, 2012 17:49:01 GMT -5
Neither are really superior to the other overall. They each have their perks and downsides, but I guess when it comes to short-term emergency survival warmblood probably has it, whereas in long-term survival coldbloodedness allows you to wait things out.
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Post by Tyrannosaurus on Feb 18, 2012 23:10:54 GMT -5
Warm-blooded animals can survive in more varied conditions and have more energy, giving them the advantage. In terms of simple survival, it's clear that a cold blooded metabolism works the best. Crocodilians survived the KT event, and the ice age, and even now are still the top of the food chain. So did birds and mammals.
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Venomous Dragon
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Post by Venomous Dragon on Feb 18, 2012 23:24:00 GMT -5
Warm-blooded animals can survive in more varied conditions and have more energy, giving them the advantage. In terms of simple survival, it's clear that a cold blooded metabolism works the best. Crocodilians survived the KT event, and the ice age, and even now are still the top of the food chain. So did birds and mammals. Mammals and birds use more energy, they do not just have more by default, the amount of energy an organism has is determined by the amount it has obtained. all it really comes down to is the warmer it is the better it is for ectothermic animals (too an extent of course) and the colder it is the worse it is for them. they also seem to do better in deserts.
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Post by Tyrannosaurus on Feb 18, 2012 23:49:57 GMT -5
They use more energy but are able to do more things with it, get more in return. Ectothermic animals don't do any better than endothermic animals in deserts, but endothermic animals certainly do better in tundras.
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Venomous Dragon
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Post by Venomous Dragon on Feb 18, 2012 23:58:34 GMT -5
They use more energy but are able to do more things with it, get more in return. Ectothermic animals don't do any better than endothermic animals in deserts, but endothermic animals certainly do better in tundras. umm no. by shear immensity of the number of species that are ectotherms they could be called superior. You seem to forget that insects are also ectotherms and there are far more bugs in the tundra during the summer than there is mammal and birds (all year round). the desert has more ectotherms, as does the jungle hell just about ever biosphere on the planet. I cant think of any physical action that endotherms do that ecototherms dont and werent doing it first. this is warm vs cold blood, not reptiles and amphibians vs mammals and birds
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Post by Tyrannosaurus on Feb 19, 2012 10:59:30 GMT -5
Mammals and birds are always higher on the food chain though. They occupy more dominant niches. There are plenty of things ectotherms can't do which endotherms can. Ectothermic vertebrates have never flown. They've never reached the same sheer size or level of intelligence(even without counting humans, mammals and birds are smarter than ectotherms). They're not as strong and they can't run nearly as fast.
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Post by Super Communist on Feb 19, 2012 11:11:49 GMT -5
Sharks, Crocodiles, Pythons, Alligators, Alligator gar, Snakeheads, Komodo dragons, ect.
Megalodon, Leedsichthys, Deinosuchus, Sarcosuchus, Purussaurus, Rhamphosuchus, ect.
Reptiles are actually much stronger pound for pound, not certain about the rest though.
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Post by Tyrannosaurus on Feb 19, 2012 11:41:37 GMT -5
Sharks, Crocodiles, Pythons, Alligators, Alligator gar, Snakeheads, Komodo dragons, ect. Megalodon, Leedsichthys, Deinosuchus, Sarcosuchus, Purussaurus, Rhamphosuchus, ect. Reptiles are actually much stronger pound for pound, not certain about the rest though. Mammals and Dinosaurs are the apex predators in practically every terrestrial environment. Sharks can't compete with sperm whales and orcas. Even Megalodon was no match for Livyatan. Sauropods, Mammoths, Whales, ect.
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Post by Super Communist on Feb 19, 2012 12:05:17 GMT -5
And cold blooded animals have out lasted the dinosaurs and been on this planet for much longer than mammals.
Livyatan died out before Megalodon.
These two are herbivores so its not really a fair comparison.
The largest whales are filter feeders while the toothed whales were dwarfed by Megalodon.
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Post by Tyrannosaurus on Feb 19, 2012 14:09:19 GMT -5
How is an herbivore not a fair comparison? There are no cold-blooded animals, herbivorous or carnivorous, which even approach that size. And Livyatan did not die out before Megalodon, do your research. All classes of Endothermic animals have survived since they first evolved(indeed most of the Dinosaurs went extinct, but not birds), they weren't out lasted by anything. I suppose if you want to call Pterosaurs a class they did go extinct, but the term class is outdated by the more modern cladistic method of evolutionary taxonomy. Reptiles, fish, and invertebrates have had their fair share of major extinctions as well.
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Reticulatus
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Post by Reticulatus on Feb 19, 2012 14:41:27 GMT -5
Mammals and birds are always higher on the food chain though. They occupy more dominant niches. There are plenty of things ectotherms can't do which endotherms can. Ectothermic vertebrates have never flown. They've never reached the same sheer size or level of intelligence(even without counting humans, mammals and birds are smarter than ectotherms). They're not as strong and they can't run nearly as fast. Whales are only higher on the food chain than krill. Sauropods and mammoths are only higher than plants.
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Post by Tyrannosaurus on Feb 19, 2012 14:56:05 GMT -5
Whales and sauropods are examples of size, not predators. The apex predators are usually warm-blooded, examples of this include Orcas, Tyrannosaurs, Allosaurs, cats, and bears.
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