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Post by Ultimategrid on Jan 6, 2012 21:33:35 GMT -5
No I am not confused a Tomistoma for a Gharial as it is still ill-suited to pull large vertbrates in the water and also the largest deer that a Tomistoma pulled was small 40lbs barking deer, much smaller than a 200lbs jaguar. Also Tomistoma's jaws are often broken or deformed, regardless of what species of Gharial. Most species of crocodilian have visible damage done to their jaws as they age, It is not uncommon for alligators to tear jaws off their opponents in territorial fights. Honestly I don't see what a jaguar can do to a 16foot crocodilian, it's simply too big. I'm assuming the fight takes place in shallow water, which allows both animals to move freely, right? I doubt the jaguar could restrain a tomistoma that big, nor could it perform a killing bite on such a large animal. My opinion on this fight is a stalemate, slightly leaning towards the croc.
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Taurus
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Post by Taurus on Jan 6, 2012 21:56:10 GMT -5
Honesty I don't see how a gharial can do to a 200lbs big cat, it is too big. Also Tomistoma's skull isn't that large or wide compared to large crocodilians, make things easier for a jaguar to apply a skull bite on a gharial.
As for the record, drop the term crocodilian and stick to the gharial term only as there are too much differences between gharials and crocodiles/caimen.
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Taurus
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Post by Taurus on Jan 6, 2012 22:04:41 GMT -5
And if this match is about Indian Gharial v.s Lion or Tiger, you would favour the gharial over big cats.
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Post by Ultimategrid on Jan 7, 2012 18:51:16 GMT -5
And if this match is about Indian Gharial v.s Lion or Tiger, you would favour the gharial over big cats. A big indian gharial can do nothing to a tiger/lion but really what could they do to it? They can be upwards of 18ft long, so long as it's in water it's mostly a stalemate. I say this because having worked with crocodilians (That is a term that refers to gharials as well), I know that when fully they have a very thick layer of muscles, and scutes over their necks, which protects their spine. So far I've never seen a large crocodilian killed by a cat, presumably because it is not possible for a cat to get at the spine with that thick layer of muscle in the way. (The sick mugger crocodile is an exception because it was so thin, this layer of muscle must not exist in that specimen) As for killing with a skull bite, I've heard of this working with Caimans, but no way is it going to be useful against a big crocodilian. They can survive being shot in the skull easily. Unless the cat can get to the brain I do not see a skull bite being useful, especially when a crocodilian of this size would not be restrained by a cat this much smaller, especially not in water.
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Taurus
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Post by Taurus on Jan 7, 2012 20:01:27 GMT -5
Again, there are strong evidence that caiman' skulls as well as giant river turtles' shell, tapirs, cattle and horses were crushed and pierced by jaguars. And false gharial's skull were narrow and less robust than most crocodilians, therefore the jaguar has a chance to bite on the gharial's skull.
You are right about large CROCODILES, ALLIGATORS and CAIMANS were immune to the predation, simple because they were too dangerous and very hard to be kill to big cats. Gharials, however are not so powerful and less threatening compared to these crocodilians, stand a little chance against any big cats. Let's stick with gharials if possible as you can. Use other species as an example were useless in this debate.
Jaguars has MUCH better chances to kill a false gharial even the big ones while a false gharial might got lucky but the chances of killing a jaguar is nil.
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Post by Felis Rex on Jan 7, 2012 21:05:35 GMT -5
People tend to forget that a Panatal Jaguar is not much smaller than a Lioness, their weights overlap.
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Post by Anomonyous on Jan 7, 2012 22:06:52 GMT -5
I don't think they did study on the body. Indian gharials are known for feeding on human corpses and it is not that rare. Hindu culture often set their dead loved ones drift in the rivers. Dur, I know that. However, the fisherman suddenly disappeared, the townspeople apparently had no explanation, and then it turns up in a false gharial's body. It was apparently concluded that the gharial had killed the man, which suggests that this wasn't simply a burial gone wrong.
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Post by Ultimategrid on Jan 7, 2012 22:08:18 GMT -5
Again, there are strong evidence that caiman' skulls as well as giant river turtles' shell, tapirs, cattle and horses were crushed and pierced by jaguars. And false gharial's skull were narrow and less robust than most crocodilians, therefore the jaguar has a chance to bite on the gharial's skull. You are right about large CROCODILES, ALLIGATORS and CAIMANS were immune to the predation, simple because they were too dangerous and very hard to be kill to big cats. Gharials, however are not so powerful and less threatening compared to these crocodilians, stand a little chance against any big cats. Let's stick with gharials if possible as you can. Use other species as an example were useless in this debate. Jaguars has MUCH better chances to kill a false gharial even the big ones while a false gharial might got lucky but the chances of killing a jaguar is nil. I'm not expecting the gharial to kill the Jaguar, I'm expecting it to successfully injure it, and/or drive it off, which it is quite capable of doing. I think that the Jaguar would be incapable of competing against such a large crocodilian, if anything it's spirit would be broken trying to kill this thing, and it would simply give up.
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Taurus
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Post by Taurus on Jan 7, 2012 22:21:49 GMT -5
Again, there are strong evidence that caiman' skulls as well as giant river turtles' shell, tapirs, cattle and horses were crushed and pierced by jaguars. And false gharial's skull were narrow and less robust than most crocodilians, therefore the jaguar has a chance to bite on the gharial's skull. You are right about large CROCODILES, ALLIGATORS and CAIMANS were immune to the predation, simple because they were too dangerous and very hard to be kill to big cats. Gharials, however are not so powerful and less threatening compared to these crocodilians, stand a little chance against any big cats. Let's stick with gharials if possible as you can. Use other species as an example were useless in this debate. Jaguars has MUCH better chances to kill a false gharial even the big ones while a false gharial might got lucky but the chances of killing a jaguar is nil. I'm not expecting the gharial to kill the Jaguar, I'm expecting it to successfully injure it, and/or drive it off, which it is quite capable of doing. I think that the Jaguar would be incapable of competing against such a large crocodilian, if anything it's spirit would be broken trying to kill this thing, and it would simply give up. sigh....here we goes, there is huge difference between gharials from other large crocodilians. A bite from gharial won't able to kill a jaguar.
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Taurus
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Post by Taurus on Jan 7, 2012 22:28:18 GMT -5
I don't think they did study on the body. Indian gharials are known for feeding on human corpses and it is not that rare. Hindu culture often set their dead loved ones drift in the rivers. Dur, I know that. However, the fisherman suddenly disappeared, the townspeople apparently had no explanation, and then it turns up in a false gharial's body. It was apparently concluded that the gharial had killed the man, which suggests that this wasn't simply a burial gone wrong. Drownings are common deaths for fisherman. It is possible that a false gharial was responsible for this fisherman's death but it could be anything without study on the body.
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Post by Anomonyous on Jan 8, 2012 15:04:27 GMT -5
Yeah, I pointed out that the only other possible (that means not aliens or something ridiculous) cause of death would be drowning.
A false gharial's jaws aren't as thin and narrow as a true gharial's. The difference becomes more clear in larger specimens.
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Post by apexpredator7 on Jan 8, 2012 15:34:58 GMT -5
i love reptiles but i wont let that sway my opionion which is the only way a fg can kill a jag is bitining it and swimming away for it to bleed to death so i think jag wins 7.5/10
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Taurus
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Post by Taurus on Jan 8, 2012 16:01:43 GMT -5
Yeah, I pointed out that the only other possible (that means not aliens or something ridiculous) cause of death would be drowning. A false gharial's jaws aren't as thin and narrow as a true gharial's. The difference becomes more clear in larger specimens. But not that much as the false gharial's jaws are still thin and narrow compared to the crocodiles and alligators. They are still ill-suited for tackle down large animals beside a fisherman (which is a freaky case) and barking deer. Not only this but false gharial's skull are less robust and more narrow than other crocodilians' skulls
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Post by Ultimategrid on Jan 8, 2012 20:17:49 GMT -5
I'm not expecting the gharial to kill the Jaguar, I'm expecting it to successfully injure it, and/or drive it off, which it is quite capable of doing. I think that the Jaguar would be incapable of competing against such a large crocodilian, if anything it's spirit would be broken trying to kill this thing, and it would simply give up. sigh....here we goes, there is huge difference between gharials from other large crocodilians. A bite from gharial won't able to kill a jaguar. sigh....here we goes, I'm not expecting the Gharial to kill the jaguar I'm expecting it to drive it off. I see very few ways a jaguar could overpower such a big animal, ignore the jaws for a moment, and take a look at the rest of its body. It's a huge powerful animal twice the jaguar's size, if you can recall when Steve Irwin was catching the "super croc" a simple tail flick was enough to crack Steve's ribs, and that's when the crocodile had four other people restraining it, having its jaws roped shut, and being towed onto land. Now try to imagine a Jaguar trying to apply a skull bite on an animal like this, the Gharial is just going to start spinning. If this is on land, or in shallow water the jaguar is literally going to be crushed if it tries to restrain the Gharial. This would easily discourage the cat from such a dangerous prey item.
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Post by Anomonyous on Jan 10, 2012 17:49:21 GMT -5
In nature, the jaguar would indeed veer away from such a massive creature, but given that this is a forced fight the results could be different.
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