|
Post by jumbo on May 16, 2012 16:48:43 GMT -5
not funny VD. I am saying a powerful human can rip a measly 25Lb snake in half or at least severely mangle it. You're right that no human can rip a full grown reticulated python in half. And you still haven't explained to me how an orangutan's 1. Intelligence 2. 4 Dexterous hands 3. Potential tool improvisation 4. Incredible Superhuman strength bioweb.uwlax.edu/bio203/s2008/ahrens_just/interesting%20facts.htm "The strength of Orangutans is believed to be 7 times greater than Human strength. No large predators except for humans threaten Orangutans" is useless against a snake or any predator for that matter. Fact, none of the people I've debated with on Carnivora ever bothered to explain to my how all those listed advantages are useless in a fight. To suggest that technical aspects like intelligence, dexterity don't come into play is a trash excuse made up by Ape-hating bigots/feline fans. They can't come with any other argumentation so they dismiss the Pro-Ape evidence. It's so absurd I can't believe it. By the time the snake latches onto the orangutan and stupidly exposes himself, the APE'S HAND IS ALREADY MOVING TO SNARE IT. As soon as it commits itself to an attack, the ape will be pulling, squeezing, and biting the snake without mercy. There is zero comparison between a capybara and an Orangutan. The latter is just volumes of magnitudes higher in fighting ability. I just gave 3 cases of humans coming off the better against snakes. Legit quality Pro-Ape sources. And once again, NO an orangutan will not flail helplessly like a little child as the snake overpowers it. Maybe you want to believe that's the outcome because you hate primates for some reason. But the facts, sources, nothing supports that idiotic notion that Apes are "weak" fighters Now let me guess, is this the part where Gato Gordo comes in?
|
|
Venomous Dragon
Archeon
The Varanid
The Ora, King of The Lizards.
Posts: 2,037
|
Post by Venomous Dragon on May 16, 2012 17:02:05 GMT -5
not funny VD. I am saying a powerful human can rip a measly 25Lb snake in half or at least severely mangle it. You're right that no human can rip a full grown reticulated python in half. And you still haven't explained to me how an orangutan's 1. Intelligence 2. 4 Dexterous hands 3. Potential tool improvisation 4. Incredible Superhuman strength bioweb.uwlax.edu/bio203/s2008/ahrens_just/interesting%20facts.htm "The strength of Orangutans is believed to be 7 times greater than Human strength. No large predators except for humans threaten Orangutans" is useless against a snake or any predator for that matter. Fact, none of the people I've debated with on Carnivora ever bothered to explain to my how all those listed advantages are useless in a fight. To suggest that technical aspects like intelligence, dexterity don't come into play is a trash excuse made up by Ape-hating bigots/feline fans. They can't come with any other argumentation so they dismiss the Pro-Ape evidence. It's so absurd I can't believe it. By the time the snake latches onto the orangutan and stupidly exposes himself, the APE'S HAND IS ALREADY MOVING TO SNARE IT. As soon as it commits itself to an attack, the ape will be pulling, squeezing, and biting the snake without mercy. There is zero comparison between a capybara and an Orangutan. The latter is just volumes of magnitudes higher in fighting ability. I just gave 3 cases of humans coming off the better against primates. Legit quality Pro-Ape sources. And once again, NO an orangutan will not flail helplessly like a little child as the snake overpowers it. Maybe you want to believe that's the outcome because you hate primates for some reason. But the facts, sources, nothing supports that idiotic notion that Apes are "weak" fighters Now let me guess, IS THIS THE PART WHERE GATO GORDO COMES IN? If the orangutang was smart it would leave as soon as it noticed the snake, it intelligence is only a minor advantage, the incredible durability of the snake means that only a direct assault on the snakes head will kill it with any speed, if its smart enough to do that thats great but theres no guarantee of that, in fact its intelligence will also be a disadvantage as the sight of of the snake would scare (dont try and say it wont be scared a person who has never seen a snake in there life will be scared of one) the ape not allowing it to think properly. Its dexterity will help but when your fighting a tube of muscle there isnt much you can grab to control. Tool use? again the snake is very durable but keeping its distance and hitting the snake with something is the apes best bet at wining. its great strength doesnt help because its still fighting a tube of muscle which a great deal stronger than it.
|
|
|
Post by jumbo on May 16, 2012 17:35:48 GMT -5
Albert Einstein is far smarter than I am. So therefore he is more liable to panic and flail helplessly like a little child as I finish him off on the ground right?
Orangutans are the largest arboreal mammals. Of course its monstrously brutal grip and dexterity can squeeze the life out of and crush that snake. Or does a snake have brutally strong hands to break the orangutan's grip? Na, it'll just wiggle around like a little girl in vain attempts to free itself while the orangutan is biting and hitting the snake all over.
Citing a famous quote from the book, Amazing but False by David Diefendorf which states: "If you find yourself in the "embrace" of a boa (which probably indicates you are having a very bad day), the strategy is to get an arm between the boa and you and apply pressure. Unless the boa is particularly stubborn or just plain mean, the snake will give up as soon as it realizes its usual tactic isn't working."
Did you see that article on page 1 where a man deterred a snake by biting it?
Lastly, how is a snake supposed to get a good bite through all that long, shaggy hair? He'll just end up with a mouthful of hair (and stupidly expose himself to being strangled and bitten)
EDIT: The link is not working so I'm erasing it.
|
|
Venomous Dragon
Archeon
The Varanid
The Ora, King of The Lizards.
Posts: 2,037
|
Post by Venomous Dragon on May 16, 2012 18:50:11 GMT -5
Albert Einstein is far smarter than I am. So therefore he is more liable to panic and flail helplessly like a little child as I finish him off on the ground right? Orangutans are the largest arboreal mammals. Of course its monstrously brutal grip and dexterity can squeeze the life out of and crush that snake. Or does a snake have brutally strong hands to break the orangutan's grip? Na, it'll just wiggle around like a little girl in vain attempts to free itself while the orangutan is biting and hitting the snake all over. Citing a famous quote from the book, Amazing but False by David Diefendorf which states: "If you find yourself in the "embrace" of a boa (which probably indicates you are having a very bad day), the strategy is to get an arm between the boa and you and apply pressure. Unless the boa is particularly stubborn or just plain mean, the snake will give up as soon as it realizes its usual tactic isn't working." Did you see that article on page 1 where a man deterred a snake by biting it? Lastly, how is a snake supposed to get a good bite through all that long, shaggy hair? He'll just end up with a mouthful of hair (and stupidly expose himself to being strangled and bitten) EDIT: The link is not working so I'm erasing it. Einstein? what a stupid comparison, you and einstein are of the same species, A human is more likely to flail like a little girl when faced with a giant constrictor than say a caiman, which is smarter? most apes have instinctual fear of snakes any way . I find your ignorance amusing. You trying to say that ape is going to out squeeze an animal that has evolved to kill thing by squeezing them, have you ever handled a constrictor? there is a reason i keep calling them tubes of muscle. Why do you continue with the low end feats? did you see the video of a python getting bitten by an alligator and continuing with the fight? long shaggy hair? it doesnt matter as long as the python gets a grip on the ape it can wrap coils around it and then its almost guaranteed to be dead, if it was that easy to escape constrictors then they would be extinct. If an adult man fails to stop a 9ft snake from killing him what could an orangutang do against a 20+ foot snake?In fact im more than confident calling you an ape fanboy, simply entertaining the idea of an ape beating a massive constrictor in a grappling match its near lunacy. if you you went with it stays back and beats it to death with a stick I wouldnt have such a problem but your trying to say it going to out grapple an animal that doesnt eat if it doesnt sqeeze its prey to death.
|
|
|
Post by Anomonyous on May 16, 2012 20:43:18 GMT -5
not funny VD. I am saying a powerful human can rip a measly 25Lb snake in half or at least severely mangle it. You're right that no human can rip a full grown reticulated python in half. And you still haven't explained to me how an orangutan's 1. Intelligence 2. 4 Dexterous hands 3. Potential tool improvisation 4. Incredible Superhuman strength bioweb.uwlax.edu/bio203/s2008/ahrens_just/interesting%20facts.htm "The strength of Orangutans is believed to be 7 times greater than Human strength. No large predators except for humans threaten Orangutans" is useless against a snake or any predator for that matter. Fact, none of the people I've debated with on Carnivora ever bothered to explain to my how all those listed advantages are useless in a fight. To suggest that technical aspects like intelligence, dexterity don't come into play is a trash excuse made up by Ape-hating bigots/feline fans. They can't come with any other argumentation so they dismiss the Pro-Ape evidence. It's so absurd I can't believe it. By the time the snake latches onto the orangutan and stupidly exposes himself, the APE'S HAND IS ALREADY MOVING TO SNARE IT. As soon as it commits itself to an attack, the ape will be pulling, squeezing, and biting the snake without mercy. There is zero comparison between a capybara and an Orangutan. The latter is just volumes of magnitudes higher in fighting ability. I just gave 3 cases of humans coming off the better against primates. Legit quality Pro-Ape sources. And once again, NO an orangutan will not flail helplessly like a little child as the snake overpowers it. Maybe you want to believe that's the outcome because you hate primates for some reason. But the facts, sources, nothing supports that idiotic notion that Apes are "weak" fighters Now let me guess, is this the part where Gato Gordo comes in? 1. Snakes are lengths of pure muscle, organs, and bone. I doubt many people could actually tear a snake apart while it just watches like nothing's happening. 2. Given that reticulated pythons aren't dumbasses themselves, and that the orangutan likely could not use its intelligence to great advantage, it provides little aid. 3. How is that supposed to help? I have dexterous hands too and I certainly couldn't beat a reticulated python squeezing me to death. 4. That would sound impressive until you realize that a python can constrict with a force of 90 psi~. Little Boy, the atom bomb dropped over Hiroshima, generated a blast force of 5 psi on houses a mile away from the center of detonation. Look what happened to them. 5. You'd have to prove how it does help first. I can't walk in and say, this is correct, now disprove me. An argument cannot be countered if an argument were never made. 6. Tell me, how does an orangutan "snare" an aggressive (these things get pissed easily!) 7 meter snake weighing over 200 pounds? It doesn't quite sound feasible. 7. When the python attacks, it starts squeezing. Hard. How is an orangutan supposed to "pull" and "squeeze" on those enormous blocks of muscle and actually do something about? As for biting, the mouth could hardly open enough to take a breath. The chances of biting that enormous snake anywhere that matters would be slim, to say the least. 8. The snake isn't stupid. It will strike quickly and seek to restrain its opponent before it can counterattack. 9. You are trying to pass a rather unreasonable assumption that we hate primates simply because we think it would lose to a massive muscle filled snake. That's rather irrational, or we'd all be hating just about every animal because we think something would beat it in a fight. I believe an elephant would stomp the living sh*t out of a python, does it mean I hate pythons? A man armed with a anti-tank missile launcher will easily kill an elephant, does that mean I hate elephants? 10. "Amazing but False" probably isn't the best source to rely on. I doubt that tactic actually works. In fact, an orangutan certainly cannot do what you say (that is, easily beating the crap out of a reticulated python) because the python won't just sit there. The orangutan may not either, but with that much force being applied, what else can it do?
|
|
|
Post by jumbo on May 16, 2012 21:38:15 GMT -5
VD, I never denied I was biased in favor of apes. I am indeed biased for them, but its rooted in my deep respect for their capabilities. I give it the proper credit it deserves instead of blowing it off as a mismatch as so many of you like to do. Again, AS SOON AS THE SNAKE LATCHES ONTO THE ORANGUTAN, THE APE WILL ALREADY BE GRABBING AND TRYING TO PULL THE SNAKE OFF. There is NO WAY, a snake is winning the double race of committing to an attack and avoid being counterattacked itself. I agree a 17 foot and higher snake would beat an orangutan. Under that, I favor the orang. Are you claiming a human with a sufficient burst of adrenaline can fight off a snake but an orangutan cannot? All I am saying is its not a mismatch. Contrary to what you (VD) are imagining, the snake won't just overpower the ape like a toy. No the ape will succeed in fighting off the snake and giving it some hell before the snake subdues it (or gives up). You realize its usually herbivores that come off the better against carnivores right? Carnivores are opportunistic, they go after old, weak, and sick- and still fail the hunt more often than not. I really can't stand this view that apes are always going to be beaten by carnivores. Rumors like this always stir up after some bigot makes an unfounded claim and a mob starts circulating the view all around. There's people on Carnivora forum who'll tell you a CHEETAH will beat a chimp. I'm DEAD serious when I say that. Anomonyous- You're right. Lets stop this argument. I have a feeling its going down the same path it did during my last stay on Carnivora. It ended with 5 haters verbally slamming me. I think the orangutan wins. VD thinks the snake wins. Fine. Stances don't matter at the end of the day. All that said, I don't think VD is bad as say Gato Gordo. So lets shake hands, take Anom's advice, and stop the feud EDIT: Deleted the orangutan pic because I figured I would get shot for copyright
|
|
|
Post by Anomonyous on May 16, 2012 22:05:07 GMT -5
I would like to elaborate on 2 things - 1, these are fights to the death, and 2, I'm presuming the snake in question is over 17 feet. Now lets stop bickering shall we?
|
|
Venomous Dragon
Archeon
The Varanid
The Ora, King of The Lizards.
Posts: 2,037
|
Post by Venomous Dragon on May 17, 2012 21:04:09 GMT -5
VD, I never denied I was biased in favor of apes. I am indeed biased for them, but its rooted in my deep respect for their capabilities. I give it the proper credit it deserves instead of blowing it off as a mismatch as so many of you like to do. Again, AS SOON AS THE SNAKE LATCHES ONTO THE ORANGUTAN, THE APE WILL ALREADY BE GRABBING AND TRYING TO PULL THE SNAKE OFF. There is NO WAY, a snake is winning the double race of committing to an attack and avoid being counterattacked itself. I agree a 17 foot and higher snake would beat an orangutan. Under that, I favor the orang. Are you claiming a human with a sufficient burst of adrenaline can fight off a snake but an orangutan cannot? All I am saying is its not a mismatch. Contrary to what you (VD) are imagining, the snake won't just overpower the ape like a toy. No the ape will succeed in fighting off the snake and giving it some hell before the snake subdues it (or gives up). You realize its usually herbivores that come off the better against carnivores right? Carnivores are opportunistic, they go after old, weak, and sick- and still fail the hunt more often than not. I really can't stand this view that apes are always going to be beaten by carnivores. Rumors like this always stir up after some bigot makes an unfounded claim and a mob starts circulating the view all around. There's people on Carnivora forum who'll tell you a CHEETAH will beat a chimp. I'm DEAD serious when I say that. Anomonyous- You're right. Lets stop this argument. I have a feeling its going down the same path it did during my last stay on Carnivora. It ended with 5 haters verbally slamming me. I think the orangutan wins. VD thinks the snake wins. Fine. Stances don't matter at the end of the day. All that said, I don't think VD is bad as say Gato Gordo. So lets shake hands, take Anom's advice, and stop the feud EDIT: Deleted the orangutan pic because I figured I would get shot for copyright I never claimed it was a mismatch either. "Are you claiming a human with a sufficient burst of adrenaline can fight off a snake but an orangutan cannot?" No, a man couldnt either, i never said that. the men who have are lucky that the snake gave up.
|
|
|
Post by Ultimategrid on May 17, 2012 22:09:18 GMT -5
The simple idea that an Orangutan could take down a reticulated python (the strongest snake on the planet) Is simply ridiculous. We are talking about an animal that can fend off Tigers, and has survived multiple bites from tigers. I found a record a while back of a snake who SURVIVED a tiger taking a chunk out of the back of its head. There's no way the ape can do better than a damn tiger. Besides the snake can squeeze with 90 psi, a single coil around the throat will be enough to end it, and you've got at least 20ft of snake to deal with. Against a primate with an instinctual fear of snakes, you have yourself a mismatch.
|
|
|
Post by Anomonyous on May 18, 2012 16:01:09 GMT -5
Well, we agreed to something of a truce. I agree but I'd rather avoid nasty arguments.
|
|
|
Post by rhino on Mar 19, 2013 0:12:51 GMT -5
Speaking of which I briefly remember seeing Mike Rowe (Dirty Jobs) got bit on the thumb by a tiny little snake and he couldn't get it off.
And if I'm not mistaken, Mike Rowe is a strong, fit otherwise average man.
But yeah it was unbelievable how strong that tiny little bugger was. He had to get a handler to dislodge to snake.
|
|
Reticulatus
Ichthyoid
http://fantasyfaceoff.proboards.com
Posts: 709
|
Post by Reticulatus on Mar 21, 2013 17:39:13 GMT -5
How did I miss this? For starters I m an ape lover, they are my favorite mammals along with chiroptera. I large powerful retic is just to much for any ape, not to mention any mammalians in its size range. They are really the perfect killers.
|
|
|
Post by rhino on Mar 31, 2013 2:13:08 GMT -5
Is there any evidence reticulated pythons prey on adult orangutans? I mean these two animals do occur don't they?
|
|
Venomous Dragon
Archeon
The Varanid
The Ora, King of The Lizards.
Posts: 2,037
|
Post by Venomous Dragon on Mar 31, 2013 2:20:44 GMT -5
Is there any evidence reticulated pythons prey on adult orangutans? I mean these two animals do occur don't they? I dont know to what extent, just that they do prey on the apes from time to time. apes are not a prefered snake food our shoulders make us hard to swallow.
|
|
|
Post by rhino on Apr 21, 2013 23:38:05 GMT -5
If the snake coils the ape's chest or neck he will win.
If it only coils the ape's arm, the ape can pull, pound, tear, and bite the snake or slam it against a hard surface to jar it loose.
|
|