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Post by Deleted on Dec 10, 2013 20:36:08 GMT -5
I tend to favor ceratopsians over ankylosaurs at similar sizes. Even if it wont stab through the clubtails armor, trike could bowl it over with its more mobile and powerful build or attack that vulnerable head. Doubt a single blow from the club will incapacitate the triceratops, unless it lands a really luck shot to a sensitive area. Not the biggest dino person, though, so I'd be open to learning more. The main problem that I have with this thought is that derived ankylosaurs represent some of the most heavily-built and powerful of all dinosaurs (let alone ornithiscians), built much like living tanks. Its head was also not as vulnerable as you are implying; in fact, it was very stout and heavily-armored. The ankylosaurus actually appears to be in the perfect place to strike the trike at its legs, which would actually do quite a good deal of damage if the tail swipe was powerful enough. The head is small though and at least more vulnerable then the body. Also once trike gets past the tail i think it can push down ankylosaurus with its more powerful body and attack more vulnerable areas, if indeed its too well armored for the horns. I dont think ankylosaur would be a able to offer much resistance. I also doubt that the legs of triceratops would be a critical target, they are low to the ground. Instead its robust body and thick, protected skull would be the main areas and I cannot see the ankylosaur often being able to immobilize it with a single slap. Once trike or any other fierce animal gets close to the ankylosaur they can begin to assault it without much problems. Cant see it hitting an enemy effectively once it reaches its flank, the tail is at a bad angle for contact.
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Godzillasaurus
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Post by Godzillasaurus on Dec 10, 2013 21:11:45 GMT -5
For one, the head being vulnerable is not really relevant here, as the best area for a triceratops to attack another animal would be its flanks or, in the case of large theropods, the chest region. And I have explained in past threads why ceratopsian beaks would not be very potent against animals with exceptionally wide girths.
Ankylosaurus would most definitely be able to offer considerable amounts of defense considering its heavily-armored carapace (and nodosaurids, a family of ankylosaurs that does not include ankylosaurus, even possessed large spikes on their backs), which would have been very defensive against even the bites of tyrannosaurids. In order for triceratops to impale its opponent's carapace, it would need to lower its head considerably. But even then, its horns would still be in a horrible position to effectively penetrate the ankylosaurus' armor, and the trike would be much better off going for its flanks, which would still be rather difficult considering the very low posture of its opponent.
Finally, I would like to acknowledge the fact that ankylosaur tail vertebrae were actually infused at the regions closest to the bony club. This would have enforced that area heavily. Ankylosaurid tails were their primary weapons, so there is no reason to believe that they were not powerful and could not deliver massive amounts of force to an outside influence.
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Post by Cr1TiKaL on Dec 11, 2013 15:13:27 GMT -5
It could just KNOCK over the fucking ankylosaur, an Elasmotherium is more than capable of killing this ankylosaur.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 11, 2013 18:59:14 GMT -5
For one, the head being vulnerable is not really relevant here, as the best area for a triceratops to attack another animal would be its flanks or, in the case of large theropods, the chest region. And I have explained in past threads why ceratopsian beaks would not be very potent against animals with exceptionally wide girths. Ankylosaurus would most definitely be able to offer considerable amounts of defense considering its heavily-armored carapace (and nodosaurids, a family of ankylosaurs that does not include ankylosaurus, even possessed large spikes on their backs), which would have been very defensive against even the bites of tyrannosaurids. In order for triceratops to impale its opponent's carapace, it would need to lower its head considerably. But even then, its horns would still be in a horrible position to effectively penetrate the ankylosaurus' armor, and the trike would be much better off going for its flanks, which would still be rather difficult considering the very low posture of its opponent. Finally, I would like to acknowledge the fact that ankylosaur tail vertebrae were actually infused at the regions closest to the bony club. This would have enforced that area heavily. Ankylosaurid tails were their primary weapons, so there is no reason to believe that they were not powerful and could not deliver massive amounts of force to an outside influence. Who said anything about it using its beak? If it cant impale the ankylosaur, I think it can just ram it around and knock it down then either trample it or attack the belly or any other vulnerable area. I dont think ankylosaurus has the ability to fight back against this type of opponent once its club tail is passed. And I just cannot see how a single hit of the club will incapacitate the trike. This was a 6+ ton heavily built animal with not many vulnerable areas either. maybe a thin theropod leg can be toppled in one good hit, but it would take a very very lucky strike for the ankylosaur to kill or severely injure the ceratopsian with just one.
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Godzillasaurus
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Post by Godzillasaurus on Dec 11, 2013 21:41:50 GMT -5
Flipping the ankylosaur would most likely not be as easy as seems, as it was very sturdy and wide.
And I do not see any effective ways in which the trike can attack its belly. With its horns? That would not work due to the positioning of the brow horns and the structure of the nasal horn. The only other vulnerable area aside from its belly would be its neck and flanks, but those would STILL be hard to effectively impale.
It does not have to be a single strike.
The trike's vulnerable areas would include: its legs, its flanks (although this would be particularly hard for the ankylosaurus to hit) and, in some cases, its head.
Tyrannosaurids had very impressive (as in very powerful) musculature in its legs and a very strong femur and tibia. I do not consider that to be weak at all.
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Post by Carcharadontosaurus on Dec 11, 2013 22:21:45 GMT -5
^ Tricera won't need to attack the belly to win this fight. It's already several times larger, it could easily smash ankylosaurus in a charge. And i don't see how ankylosaurus could get a good hit with its tail club without getting incapacitated.
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Godzillasaurus
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Post by Godzillasaurus on Dec 12, 2013 8:34:42 GMT -5
^ Tricera won't need to attack the belly to win this fight. It's already several times larger, it could easily smash ankylosaurus in a charge. And i don't see how ankylosaurus could get a good hit with its tail club without getting incapacitated. What are you implying by "smash"? I have already explained why goring its flanks would be hard for the triceratops to do here.
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Post by Deleted on Dec 12, 2013 18:45:05 GMT -5
Flipping the ankylosaur would most likely not be as easy as seems, as it was very sturdy and wide. And I do not see any effective ways in which the trike can attack its belly. With its horns? That would not work due to the positioning of the brow horns and the structure of the nasal horn. The only other vulnerable area aside from its belly would be its neck and flanks, but those would STILL be hard to effectively impale. The trike can trample on the belly and besides, I'm sure it can move it head somewhat to impale ankylosaurus at some point from when its ramming it to when it has it flipped. It may have come off from my post that I was implying that all theropods had weak legs, which isnt the case. But its thinner and higher up then the triceratops legs, making it a more vulnerable target. Besides I dont think a large theropod like T. rex would get its leg shattered with one strike either. Surely a hit would be enough to injure it and repel an attack, but to downright crack it and cause the theropod to crumble? Probably not.
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Godzillasaurus
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Post by Godzillasaurus on Jan 27, 2014 14:22:00 GMT -5
Quote: The trike can trample on the belly and besides, I'm sure it can move it head somewhat to impale ankylosaurus at some point from when its ramming it to when it has it flipped.
Its brow horns were designed as defense against taller animals, specifically predators like tyrannosaurus and daspletosaurus for that matter. Their function of deeply impaling would be practically useless unless they were being used head-on to attack the chest or belly of a large theropod instead of being used to impale the heavily-armored carapace of an already relatively low animal. And its nasal horn was far too short and blunt while its beak would have really only been useful as a weapon against more gracile animals (where they could be used to cripple a predator via bone breaking).
Quote: It may have come off from my post that I was implying that all theropods had weak legs, which isnt the case. But its thinner and higher up then the triceratops legs, making it a more vulnerable target. Besides I dont think a large theropod like T. rex would get its leg shattered with one strike either. Surely a hit would be enough to injure it and repel an attack, but to downright crack it and cause the theropod to crumble? Probably not.
Bone breaking is what ankylosaurid tail clubs were best designed for. With enough driving force, such a thick and reinforced structure would have had no issues crippling an opponent. Just as how stegosaur thagomizer spikes were designed for deep puncturing, ankylosaurid clubs were best designed for blunt damage.
I have no doubt in my mind that the ankylosaurus would be capable of inflicting blunt leg/bone related damage on the ceratopsian
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Post by Cr1TiKaL on Feb 1, 2014 16:41:17 GMT -5
Blunt force trauma wouldn't do shit against an animal much larger than itself
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Godzillasaurus
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Post by Godzillasaurus on Feb 1, 2014 17:37:58 GMT -5
Oh really? So something whose tail was not only very powerful bite was also tipped with a robust club-like piece could not break an opponent's legs?
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Post by Cr1TiKaL on Feb 2, 2014 2:54:21 GMT -5
It could break it's opponents legs but anywhere else it wouldn't do much (except the face).
BTW, the Triceratops can knock over the Ankylosaurus to win.
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Godzillasaurus
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Post by Godzillasaurus on Feb 2, 2014 9:48:22 GMT -5
And so leg-breaking is not that big of a feat? In the case that ankylosaurus manages to actually impact the legs, the triceratops would likely not be able to fare very well after that. Also note that while the triceratops COULD tip it over, it would be particularly risky to begin with considering how a head-strike could be very deadly as well, as it could easily fracture the structure with enough force.
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Post by Cr1TiKaL on Feb 3, 2014 13:37:01 GMT -5
Do you favour the Ankylosaurus?
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Godzillasaurus
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Post by Godzillasaurus on Feb 5, 2014 14:58:52 GMT -5
No, I am 50/50 on this one
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