Venomous Dragon
Archeon
The Varanid
The Ora, King of The Lizards.
Posts: 2,037
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Post by Venomous Dragon on May 15, 2012 23:29:35 GMT -5
Do you know what people call these? they are called low-end feats, its when you take weaker showing of an animal and try to play it off as the standard, what your doing is just as bad as when people use the high-end feat of tigers killing elephants and try to play it as the standard. See you are all for using low end feats for bears but you discount the times when gorillas are killed by leopards and thats BS. You dont get to have your cake and eat it too. Calm down VD. All I mean is that if a human with a sufficient adrenaline charge can hold off and repel a grizzly, so can a Gorilla. And Deinobrontornis and I have given legit reasons why its highly unlikely a leopard predates on a healthy silverback gorilla. I've also provided a source stating that Gorillas are potentially stronger than grizzly bears. Is it far fetched to say a Gorilla can repel a grizzly if an unarmed man can? You're right, tigers absolutely cannot kill elephants. But Feline fanboys buy all kinds of nonsense. Back on Carnivora, somebody showed me a book (?) that said a lion held a jeep in place What im saying is you cant always use ABC logic, do we know the condition of the bears involved?, bears interact with people far more often than gorillas, so there is a higher probability for accounts like this to happen and finally you are using Prime male gorillas vs unknown condition bears.
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Post by jumbo on May 15, 2012 23:37:38 GMT -5
Calm down VD. All I mean is that if a human with a sufficient adrenaline charge can hold off and repel a grizzly, so can a Gorilla. And Deinobrontornis and I have given legit reasons why its highly unlikely a leopard predates on a healthy silverback gorilla. I've also provided a source stating that Gorillas are potentially stronger than grizzly bears. Is it far fetched to say a Gorilla can repel a grizzly if an unarmed man can? You're right, tigers absolutely cannot kill elephants. But Feline fanboys buy all kinds of nonsense. Back on Carnivora, somebody showed me a book (?) that said a lion held a jeep in place What im saying is you cant always use ABC logic, do we know the condition of the bears involved?, bears interact with people far more often than gorillas, so there is a higher probability for accounts like this to happen and finally you are using Prime male gorillas vs unknown condition bears. See- how come when a leopard kills a gorilla it is automatically assumed the ape was 100% healthy and not compromised in anyway. But when a human kills a big cat/bear- people claim it was sick, old, injured? That's the kind of hypocrisy prevalent in Carnivora forum. It's notoriously ANTI-Ape biased. If people want to claim leopard predation on Gorillas as an argument gorillas are no match to bigger predators, humans killing lion/tiger/bears is also legit quality evidence for a gorilla victory. midwestliving.coverleaf.com/midwestliving/20100910?pg=40#pg40 The Gorilla, Bushman could stretch car tires like rubber bands. I seriously doubt a gorilla is weaker than a bear www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1364810.ece If this is what a 150LB chimp can do, I cannot begin to imagine the devastation a 500LB Enraged Gorilla can potentially wreak on a bear.
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Venomous Dragon
Archeon
The Varanid
The Ora, King of The Lizards.
Posts: 2,037
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Post by Venomous Dragon on May 15, 2012 23:57:28 GMT -5
I agree, the leopard comparison earlier was just an example.
Brutally mauling an old man? people have done things just as bad by beating the crap out of people, not overly impressive.
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ansalon
Single celled organism
Posts: 28
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Post by ansalon on May 15, 2012 23:59:02 GMT -5
What im saying is you cant always use ABC logic, do we know the condition of the bears involved?, bears interact with people far more often than gorillas, so there is a higher probability for accounts like this to happen and finally you are using Prime male gorillas vs unknown condition bears. See- how come when a leopard kills a gorilla it is automatically assumed the ape was 100% healthy and not compromised in anyway. But when a human kills a big cat/bear- people claim it was sick, old, injured? That's the kind of hypocrisy prevalent in Carnivora forum. It's notoriously ANTI-Ape biased. If people want to claim leopard predation on Gorillas as an argument gorillas are no match to bigger predators, humans killing lion/tiger/bears is also legit quality evidence for a gorilla victory. midwestliving.coverleaf.com/midwestliving/20100910?pg=40#pg40 The Gorilla, Bushman could stretch car tires like rubber bands. I seriously doubt a gorilla is weaker than a bear www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article1364810.ece If this is what a 150LB chimp can do, I cannot begin to imagine the devastation a 500LB Enraged Gorilla can potentially wreak on a bear. I totally get what youre saying Jumbo. People tend to take one case of an animal doing an incredible feat (leopard killing silverback, tiger killing elephant and rhino, honey badger killing large python), and make it like its the norm. The truth is that lots of these rare occurences dont give us 100% proof, and you will always have people saying that their was a more reasonable explanation for these incredible feats (gorilla was sleeping, elephant was sick, python was cold at night). Then we get some huge arguement that gets nowhere and leaves people angry at each other. Its kinda sad.
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Post by jumbo on May 16, 2012 0:06:41 GMT -5
I agree, the leopard comparison earlier was just an example. Brutally mauling an old man? people have done things just as bad by beating the crap out of people, not overly impressive. If a chimp can overpower and dismember an adult man- what do you think a GORILLA can do with the same attitude? His power to maul the bear will be catastrophic. Ripping sensitive facial areas, extremities, eyes, nose- the bear would a bloody mess. And what about the Car tire stretching? You don't think thats impressive www.youtube.com/watch?v=-edSsJuHG14 Geez that glass sounds as if its about to break
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Venomous Dragon
Archeon
The Varanid
The Ora, King of The Lizards.
Posts: 2,037
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Post by Venomous Dragon on May 16, 2012 0:19:22 GMT -5
I agree, the leopard comparison earlier was just an example. Brutally mauling an old man? people have done things just as bad by beating the crap out of people, not overly impressive. If a chimp can overpower and dismember an adult man- what do you think a GORILLA can do with the same attitude? His power to maul the bear will be catastrophic. Ripping sensitive facial areas, extremities, eyes, nose- the bear would a bloody mess. And what about the Car tire stretching? You don't think thats impressive www.youtube.com/watch?v=-edSsJuHG14 Geez that glass sounds as if its about to break I didnt comment on the tire stretching because i didnt find it unimpressive, they didnt dismember him they tore his face up, multiple chimps failed to kill a senior citizen, its not impressive. The facial area is probably best avoided on less the gorilla plans on loosing fingers.
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Post by jumbo on May 16, 2012 0:28:34 GMT -5
If a chimp can overpower and dismember an adult man- what do you think a GORILLA can do with the same attitude? His power to maul the bear will be catastrophic. Ripping sensitive facial areas, extremities, eyes, nose- the bear would a bloody mess. And what about the Car tire stretching? You don't think thats impressive www.youtube.com/watch?v=-edSsJuHG14 Geez that glass sounds as if its about to break I didnt comment on the tire stretching because i didnt find it unimpressive, they dismember him they tore his face up, multiple chimps failed to kill a senior citizen, its not impressive. The facial area is probably best avoided on less the gorilla plans on loosing fingers. www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6jOSltBHdU Lions mauled a zoo keeper and didn't kill him. Does that mean lions are poor killers? www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNdURQEOki0 Calm Silverback pulls down tree with 1 hand. What do you think he can do if he was excited and exerting full force? www.nytimes.com/2007/06/24/us/24bear.html and again, a Man killed a bear by throwing a log at it. There also was a source documenting Gorillas using tools but its Copyscaped so I have doubts about posting it.
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Venomous Dragon
Archeon
The Varanid
The Ora, King of The Lizards.
Posts: 2,037
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Post by Venomous Dragon on May 16, 2012 0:38:53 GMT -5
I didnt comment on the tire stretching because i didnt find it unimpressive, they dismember him they tore his face up, multiple chimps failed to kill a senior citizen, its not impressive. The facial area is probably best avoided on less the gorilla plans on loosing fingers. www.youtube.com/watch?v=g6jOSltBHdU Lions mauled a zoo keeper and didn't kill him. Does that mean lions are poor killers? www.youtube.com/watch?v=cNdURQEOki0 Calm Silverback pulls down tree with 1 hand. What do you think he can do if he was excited and exerting full force? www.nytimes.com/2007/06/24/us/24bear.html and again, a Man killed a bear by throwing a log at it. There also was a source documenting Gorillas using tools but its Copyscaped so I have doubts about posting it. Lions have multiple accounts proving exactly the opposite, including being some of the worst man-eaters in history, chimps dont, when have chimps killed anything large quickly on there own? Again with the low end feats? i guess ill post the account of the leopard stalemating a silverback in a death match as proof that the grizzily bear will win.
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Post by jumbo on May 16, 2012 0:55:33 GMT -5
Lions have multiple accounts proving exactly the opposite, including being some of the worst man-eaters in history, chimps dont, when have chimps killed anything large quickly on there own? Again with the low end feats? i guess ill post the account of the leopard stalemating a silverback in a death match as proof that the grizzily bear will win. Chimpanzees have snatched and eaten human babies. Gangs of male chimps raid other territories to eliminate rivals in gang warfare. Chimps taking a long time to kill something doesn't make them poor killers. In fact, it makes it all the more gruesome for the victim involved. www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6nvEbQI2jY Lion paw swiped man 4 times and did NO damage. Obviously it was a captive lion but I can still use it as evidence that lions are "poor" killers. on topic, I think we both agree a Gigantopithecus will beat a grizzly bear right? The ape will just overpower him, being so much larger and stronger. Gorilla vs Grizzly Bear is more debatable.
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Venomous Dragon
Archeon
The Varanid
The Ora, King of The Lizards.
Posts: 2,037
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Post by Venomous Dragon on May 16, 2012 8:13:22 GMT -5
Lions have multiple accounts proving exactly the opposite, including being some of the worst man-eaters in history, chimps dont, when have chimps killed anything large quickly on there own? Again with the low end feats? i guess ill post the account of the leopard stalemating a silverback in a death match as proof that the grizzily bear will win. Chimpanzees have snatched and eaten human babies. Gangs of male chimps raid other territories to eliminate rivals in gang warfare. Chimps taking a long time to kill something doesn't make them poor killers. In fact, it makes it all the more gruesome for the victim involved. www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6nvEbQI2jY Lion paw swiped man 4 times and did NO damage. Obviously it was a captive lion but I can still use it as evidence that lions are "poor" killers. on topic, I think we both agree a Gigantopithecus will beat a grizzly bear right? The ape will just overpower him, being so much larger and stronger. Gorilla vs Grizzly Bear is more debatable. I asked if they kill anything large on there own, as in individually and killling a baby is not impressive in the slightest. lions dont use the paws to kill things so that video means nothing. Yes i think the the ape is too big for a grizzly bear.
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Post by DinosaurMichael on May 16, 2012 9:28:49 GMT -5
Chimpanzees have snatched and eaten human babies. Gangs of male chimps raid other territories to eliminate rivals in gang warfare. Chimps taking a long time to kill something doesn't make them poor killers. In fact, it makes it all the more gruesome for the victim involved. www.youtube.com/watch?v=L6nvEbQI2jY Lion paw swiped man 4 times and did NO damage. Obviously it was a captive lion but I can still use it as evidence that lions are "poor" killers. on topic, I think we both agree a Gigantopithecus will beat a grizzly bear right? The ape will just overpower him, being so much larger and stronger. Gorilla vs Grizzly Bear is more debatable. I asked if they kill anything large on there own, as in individually and killling a baby is not impressive in the slightest. lions dont use the paws to kill things so that video means nothing. Yes i think the the ape is too big for a grizzly bear.Yeah like I said. Maybe I should of used a Kodiak Bear to make it a more fair fight.
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Post by Anomonyous on May 16, 2012 20:48:44 GMT -5
VD and Jumbo, might want to stop having a go at each other. Considering your positions, I don't think it's particularly good for either of your reputations.
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Post by rhino on Feb 6, 2013 17:20:15 GMT -5
Which grizzly are we talking about exactly? An inland grizzly would be too small, but I would favor a coastal grizzly which can weigh at about a ton.Do they? Aside from that, I agree the largest coastal brown bears outweigh even Gigantopithecus by several hundred pounds and would simply overpower it. But the average grizzly bear is simply too small here.
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Post by Cr1TiKaL on Apr 12, 2013 15:21:33 GMT -5
I think the Grizzly is being a little bit underestimated here. While the Gigantopithecus does have the size advantage, it just doesn't have the weaponry to deal with the bear. I don't think that the ape will know what to do with a bear. It has hands, but that is pretty much it. The Gigantopithecus' skull is as useless as hell: It doesn't have big canines like a gorilla would have, this is because that the Gigantopithecus is more related to orangutans than that of gorillas. A grizzly has the perfect weaponry to deal with a Gigantopithecus. It is more aggressive (possibly), has better weaponry and it is more durable (possibly). A grizzly would probably act like it's a prey item due to the fact that they do sometimes prey on elk, muskox and moose. Grizzly bear skull from the side: Grizzly bear skull from the front: As for this fight, the Gigantopithecus would probably win 5.1/10 at average weights. But at similar weights or parity, bear wins 9/10.
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Post by rhino on Apr 12, 2013 17:10:18 GMT -5
Hands are IMO far more versatile than paws.
At parity and average sizes, I'd have to back the ape.
At maximum sizes, I back the bear
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