|
Post by Deinobrontornis on Dec 9, 2011 18:46:59 GMT -5
Western gorilla - Gorilla gorillaThe western gorilla is slightly smaller, lighter, more slender and clearer dyed than its eastern cousin. The western lowland gorilla can be brown or greyish with a yellowish forehead. It also has an overhanging tip on its nose, which the eastern gorilla does not have. Males measure 160–170 cm (5.3-5.6 ft) and weigh 140–160 kg (307-353 lb). Females measure 120–140 cm (3.9-4.6 ft) and weigh 60–80 kg (132-176 lb). The western gorilla is the smaller species of the gorilla. The Cross River gorilla differs from the western lowland gorilla in both skull and tooth dimensions. It is also about 10–15 cm (4-6 in) taller and 20–35 kg (44-77 lb) heavier, but still smaller and lighter than the mountain gorilla and the eastern lowland gorilla, latter the largest subspecies of the gorilla and the largest living primate. Sloth Bear - Ursus ursinusThe sloth bear (Ursus ursinus =Melursus ursinus), also known as the labiated bear, is a nocturnal insectivorous species of bear found wild within the Indian subcontinent. The sloth bear evolved from ancestral brown bears during the Pleistocene and shares features found in insect-eating mammals through convergent evolution. The population isolated in Sri Lanka is considered as a subspecies. Sloth bears are distinguished from Asian black bears by their lankier builds, longer, shaggier coat, pale muzzle and white claws. Sloth bear muzzles are thick and long, with small jaws and bulbous snouts with wide nostrils. They have long lower lips which can be stretched over the outer edge of the nose, and lack upper incisors, thus allowing them to suck up large numbers of insects. The premolars and molars are smaller than in other bears, as they do not chew as much vegetation. In adults, the teeth are usually in poor condition, due to the amount of dirt they suck up and chew when feeding on insects. The back of the palate is long and broad, as is typical in other ant-eating mammals. The paws are disproportionately large, and have highly developed, sickle shaped blunt claws which measure 4 inches in length. Their toe pads are connected by a hairless web. They have the longest tail in the bear family, which can grow to 6–7 inches. Their back legs are not very strong, though they are knee-jointed, and allow the sloth bear to assume almost any position. The ears are very large and floppy. Sloth bear fur is completely black (rusty for some specimens), save for a whitish Y or V shaped mark on the chest. This feature is sometimes absent, particularly in Sri Lankan specimens. This feature, which is also present in Asian black bears and sun bears, is thought to serve as a threat display, as all three species are sympatric with tigers. The coat is long, shaggy and unkempt, and is particularly heavy behind the neck and between the shoulders, forming a mane which can be 30 cm long. The belly and underlegs are almost bare. Adult sloth bears weigh 100 kg (220 lbs) on average, though weight can range variously from 55 kg (121 lbs) to 190 kg (419 lbs). They are 60–90 cm (2–3 ft) high at the shoulder, and have a body length of 1.4–1.9 m (4.6–6.3 ft). Females are smaller than males, and have more fur between the shoulders.
|
|
Venomous Dragon
Archeon
The Varanid
The Ora, King of The Lizards.
Posts: 2,037
|
Post by Venomous Dragon on Dec 9, 2011 21:36:23 GMT -5
Gorillas dont seem to have a good track record with leopards, so im dont think it could handle the bear.
|
|
|
Post by Deinobrontornis on Dec 10, 2011 13:45:09 GMT -5
Gorillas dont seem to have a good track record with leopards, so im dont think it could handle the bear. Oh please, not another leopard fanatic! There have only been 8 cases recorded in which leopards have actually killed gorillas. These were all night, 7 by ambush, and most when the gorilla was asleep. These cases do not count. And please, bears are TOTALLY DIFFERENT from cats. This is broken logic, saying one animal wins because another different animal rarely kills it. And do not mention leopards again! We have another thread for that--plus it is irrelevant to this matchup. Both run at the same speed and sloth bears have lethal claws along with thick fur to protect them, but the gorilla is larger (225 lb. bear vs. 350 lb. gorilla), smarter, has grappling abilities, powerful arms, and a bite much more powerful.
|
|
Venomous Dragon
Archeon
The Varanid
The Ora, King of The Lizards.
Posts: 2,037
|
Post by Venomous Dragon on Dec 10, 2011 13:54:20 GMT -5
Gorillas dont seem to have a good track record with leopards, so im dont think it could handle the bear. Oh please, not another leopard fanatic! There have only been 8 cases recorded in which leopards have actually killed gorillas. These were all night, 7 by ambush, and most when the gorilla was asleep. These cases do not count. And please, bears are TOTALLY DIFFERENT from cats. This is broken logic, saying one animal wins because another different animal rarely kills it. And do not mention leopards again! We have another thread for that--plus it is irrelevant to this matchup. Both run at the same speed and sloth bears have lethal claws along with thick fur to protect them, but the gorilla is larger (225 lb. bear vs. 350 lb. gorilla), smarter, has grappling abilities, powerful arms, and a bite much more powerful. The bear clearly has the advantage in the bite department, it jaws are just more lethal.The leopard is relevant to this match because as far as I know its the only large carnivore the gorilla encounters and they seem to barely be able to handle them.
|
|
|
Post by Deinobrontornis on Dec 10, 2011 14:28:00 GMT -5
The gorilla has sharp canines with blunt premolars, molars, and incisors. The sloth bear has the same kind of teeth, except it has no upper incisors. Also, have you ever heard of the incredibly powerful bite force of a gorilla? It is as strong as a brown bear's bite force, which is a bear larger than a sloth bear.
Did you read anything I said about the leopard?
|
|
Venomous Dragon
Archeon
The Varanid
The Ora, King of The Lizards.
Posts: 2,037
|
Post by Venomous Dragon on Dec 10, 2011 14:39:10 GMT -5
The gorilla has sharp canines with blunt premolars, molars, and incisors. The sloth bear has the same kind of teeth, except it has no upper incisors. Also, have you ever heard of the incredibly powerful bite force of a gorilla? It is as strong as a brown bear's bite force, which is a bear larger than a sloth bear. Did you read anything I said about the leopard? I forgot that sloth bears lost there upper incisors due to insectivore specialization. I did read what you said about the leopard, doesnt change the fact that gorillas have a hard time with them.
|
|
|
Post by Deinobrontornis on Dec 10, 2011 18:12:57 GMT -5
The gorilla has sharp canines with blunt premolars, molars, and incisors. The sloth bear has the same kind of teeth, except it has no upper incisors. Also, have you ever heard of the incredibly powerful bite force of a gorilla? It is as strong as a brown bear's bite force, which is a bear larger than a sloth bear. Did you read anything I said about the leopard? I forgot that sloth bears lost there upper canines due to insectivore specialization. I did read what you said about the leopard, doesnt change the fact that gorillas have a hard time with them. I said sloth bears lost their upper incisors, not their upper canines. It doesn't change the fact? Do you I have to repeat myself again? All cases of leopards killing gorillas happened at night in which gorillas could see no better than a human. Nearly all attacks were ambush, with the gorillas often asleep. Ambushes, situations were one opponent is severely disadvantaged, or when one opponent is asleep do not count as legitimate match-ups. In a head-to-head fight in daytime, a gorilla is almost always guaranteed victory against a leopard or another animal much smaller than itself. Most healthy humans could bring Mike Tyson to floor if he was sound asleep. Does that mean you could do the same if you were right in front of him when he is wide awake. Probably not!
|
|
Venomous Dragon
Archeon
The Varanid
The Ora, King of The Lizards.
Posts: 2,037
|
Post by Venomous Dragon on Dec 10, 2011 19:02:17 GMT -5
I forgot that sloth bears lost there upper canines due to insectivore specialization. I did read what you said about the leopard, doesnt change the fact that gorillas have a hard time with them. I said sloth bears lost their upper incisors, not their upper canines. It doesn't change the fact? Do you I have to repeat myself again? All cases of leopards killing gorillas happened at night in which gorillas could see no better than a human. Nearly all attacks were ambush, with the gorillas often asleep. Ambushes, situations were one opponent is severely disadvantaged, or when one opponent is asleep do not count as legitimate match-ups. In a head-to-head fight in daytime, a gorilla is almost always guaranteed victory against a leopard or another animal much smaller than itself. Most healthy humans could bring Mike Tyson to floor if he was sound asleep. Does that mean you could do the same if you were right in front of him when he is wide awake. Probably not! I meant incisors. Comparing two people is not the same as comparing a cat to an ape. Bad analogy. Also how would they bring tyson to the floor if he is asleep? Roll him off his bed? lol Its your opinion that an ape would beat a leopard in a face to face confrontation, quite acting like its a fact. Gorillas do not impress, I have seen no evidence that they deserve there status as formidable fighters (amongst average people most debaters dont rate them highly in my experience) Provide some evidence of a gorilla doing something impressive and i might change my mind.
|
|
|
Post by Super Communist on Dec 10, 2011 22:19:49 GMT -5
If a sloth bear can rip through termite mounds I think its claws would cut into a gorillas skin like hot butter, while I don't see an effective way for the gorilla to kill the bear.
|
|
|
Post by Deinobrontornis on Dec 12, 2011 20:22:22 GMT -5
I said sloth bears lost their upper incisors, not their upper canines. It doesn't change the fact? Do you I have to repeat myself again? All cases of leopards killing gorillas happened at night in which gorillas could see no better than a human. Nearly all attacks were ambush, with the gorillas often asleep. Ambushes, situations were one opponent is severely disadvantaged, or when one opponent is asleep do not count as legitimate match-ups. In a head-to-head fight in daytime, a gorilla is almost always guaranteed victory against a leopard or another animal much smaller than itself. Most healthy humans could bring Mike Tyson to floor if he was sound asleep. Does that mean you could do the same if you were right in front of him when he is wide awake. Probably not! I meant incisors. Comparing two people is not the same as comparing a cat to an ape. Bad analogy. Also how would they bring Tyson to the floor if he is asleep? Roll him off his bed? lol Its your opinion that an ape would beat a leopard in a face to face confrontation, quite acting like its a fact. Gorillas do not impress, I have seen no evidence that they deserve there status as formidable fighters (amongst average people most debaters don't rate them highly in my experience) Provide some evidence of a gorilla doing something impressive and i might change my mind. No! You were comparing a cat to a bear, not to an ape. You should know what "put to the floor" means. If you don't, then just forget it. You are the one that first claimed leopards are a dire threat to gorillas. I debunked your claims on the legitimacy of the accounts, and you ignored them! I am still waiting for your response. I'll look later. But one does not necessarily need to see an animal do something to know it's possible. All you need is a few specimens of that species in order to get an idea of what a creature is capable of achieving. Facts are facts and I have already given them to you. If you still don't like it, it's your own darn fault for your mind being sealed shut.
|
|
Venomous Dragon
Archeon
The Varanid
The Ora, King of The Lizards.
Posts: 2,037
|
Post by Venomous Dragon on Dec 12, 2011 20:35:45 GMT -5
Dire: causing or involving great fear or suffering It would appear by definition that leopards are indeed a dire threat to gorillas (causing great fear and or suffering) You didnt debunk anything. I said gorillas have trouble with leopards and you tried to "debunk" It with accounts of leopard predation but said accounts prove neither you or myself correct or incorrect.
|
|
|
Post by Deinobrontornis on Dec 12, 2011 20:43:00 GMT -5
Dire: causing or involving great fear or suffering It would appear by definition that leopards are indeed a dire threat to gorillas (causing great fear and or suffering) You didnt debunk anything. I said gorillas have trouble with leopards and you tried to "debunk" It with accounts of leopard predation but said accounts prove neither you or myself correct or incorrect. HAHAHA! Really? You claimed leopards can regularly kill gorillas. I showed that leopard predation on gorillas is extremely rare and only happens under certain circumstances highly in favor of the leopard. Also, silverback gorillas are so confident enough in their ability to defend themselves that they sleep on the forest floor! Now tell me, if an animal had a great fear of being killed by a leopard. Why would it sleep on the forest floor?
|
|
Venomous Dragon
Archeon
The Varanid
The Ora, King of The Lizards.
Posts: 2,037
|
Post by Venomous Dragon on Dec 12, 2011 20:53:31 GMT -5
Your reading comprehension is pathetic. i never said leopards regularly prey on gorillas. Go ahead quote me, where did i say that? I said that they dont have a great track record, I never stated the circumstances behind there conflicts, merely that gorillas have a hard time with a cat they greatly outweigh. Would you say they do have a great track record? The silverbacks may sleep on the ground due to obligation. It is his job to defend the family.
|
|
|
Post by Deinobrontornis on Dec 13, 2011 16:13:32 GMT -5
Your reading comprehension is pathetic. i never said leopards regularly prey on gorillas. Go ahead quote me, where did i say that? I said that they dont have a great track record, I never stated the circumstances behind there conflicts, merely that gorillas have a hard time with a cat they greatly outweigh. Would you say they do have a great track record? The silverbacks may sleep on the ground due to obligation. It is his job to defend the family. Hello pot! I said you said "can regularly kill gorillas" as the understood interpretation of "poor track record". Global Moderator- This obviously isn't getting anywhere. Find another place to talk about it.
|
|
Venomous Dragon
Archeon
The Varanid
The Ora, King of The Lizards.
Posts: 2,037
|
Post by Venomous Dragon on Dec 13, 2011 16:37:40 GMT -5
Your reading comprehension is pathetic. i never said leopards regularly prey on gorillas. Go ahead quote me, where did i say that? I said that they dont have a great track record, I never stated the circumstances behind there conflicts, merely that gorillas have a hard time with a cat they greatly outweigh. Would you say they do have a great track record? The silverbacks may sleep on the ground due to obligation. It is his job to defend the family. Hello pot! I said you said "can regularly kill gorillas" as the understood interpretation of "poor track record". Global Moderator- This obviously isn't getting anywhere. Find another place to talk about it. Then this entire bout was caused by your misinterpretation.
|
|